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	<title>Comments on: JUNOS (Juniper) Kernel Crash Video</title>
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	<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/</link>
	<description>Information security, a little slower...a little deeper</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 08:33:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Praetorian Prefect &#124; Juniper Kernel Crash &#8211; scapy Code</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-6028</link>
		<dc:creator>Praetorian Prefect &#124; Juniper Kernel Crash &#8211; scapy Code</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-6028</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] 6th, we wrote about a JUNOS flaw that caused a kernel crash in Juniper routers and demonstrated the effect in action in a video. At the time Juniper was not making details of the advisory public, however since then [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 6th, we wrote about a JUNOS flaw that caused a kernel crash in Juniper routers and demonstrated the effect in action in a video. At the time Juniper was not making details of the advisory public, however since then [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Heath</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5552</link>
		<dc:creator>Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@  Director of Stunt &#124; January 9, 2010, 4:45 PM&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You cannot protect from these attacks at all apart from upgrading.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;TTL wont work as you could count hops to the target with traceroute and alter starting ttl accordingly.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Source IP filtering wont work as its pretty easy to figure out that between 2 routers in a traceroute there is a /30 (most ISPs). Sure loopbacks are used a lot of the time for BGP peerings, but sometimes it is the interface ips. I havent thought through a loopback hack scenario, but there quite possibly could be a practical attack.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dont forget theres also telnet, ssh, snmp, rsvp, ldp etc etc... its not just bgp!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Does this even require an open (post 3-way) tcp socket???&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think the biggest problem with this is that it demonstrates a lack of vulnerability testing from within the vendor. Its just a matter of time until more bugs are found as people now have a focus on these particular products.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Not good at all for a &#039;core&#039; router vendor!!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@  Director of Stunt | January 9, 2010, 4:45 PM</p>

<p>You cannot protect from these attacks at all apart from upgrading.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>TTL wont work as you could count hops to the target with traceroute and alter starting ttl accordingly.</p></li>
<li><p>Source IP filtering wont work as its pretty easy to figure out that between 2 routers in a traceroute there is a /30 (most ISPs). Sure loopbacks are used a lot of the time for BGP peerings, but sometimes it is the interface ips. I havent thought through a loopback hack scenario, but there quite possibly could be a practical attack.</p></li>
<li><p>Dont forget theres also telnet, ssh, snmp, rsvp, ldp etc etc&#8230; its not just bgp!</p></li>
<li><p>Does this even require an open (post 3-way) tcp socket???</p></li>
</ul>

<p>I think the biggest problem with this is that it demonstrates a lack of vulnerability testing from within the vendor. Its just a matter of time until more bugs are found as people now have a focus on these particular products.</p>

<p>Not good at all for a &#8216;core&#8217; router vendor!!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andree</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5486</link>
		<dc:creator>Andree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 22:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5486</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just tested the exploit in our lab on a M10 running JunOS 7.6R3.6.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In my tests it turns out that having a firewall filter does seem to block these packets without crashing the kernel. Of course it’s easy to spoof these packets, but still some form of protection.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;See video here: http://www.toonk.nl/blog/?p=522&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just tested the exploit in our lab on a M10 running JunOS 7.6R3.6.</p>

<p>In my tests it turns out that having a firewall filter does seem to block these packets without crashing the kernel. Of course it’s easy to spoof these packets, but still some form of protection.</p>

<p>See video here: <a href="http://www.toonk.nl/blog/?p=522" rel="nofollow">http://www.toonk.nl/blog/?p=522</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JunOS PSN-2010-01-623 and Firewall filters &#124; Andree's Blog!</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5483</link>
		<dc:creator>JunOS PSN-2010-01-623 and Firewall filters &#124; Andree's Blog!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5483</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] filters to only allow traffic to the RE from trusted sources. According to the advisory and some resources online firewall filters don’t help in this case. However in my lab testing applying a firewall did seem [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] filters to only allow traffic to the RE from trusted sources. According to the advisory and some resources online firewall filters don’t help in this case. However in my lab testing applying a firewall did seem [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JeDraco</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5441</link>
		<dc:creator>JeDraco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 03:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5441</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It appears that there is exploit code in the wild now, unfortunately.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If you haven&#039;t patched yet, pretty soon might be a good time for some emergency maintenance.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that there is exploit code in the wild now, unfortunately.</p>

<p>If you haven&#8217;t patched yet, pretty soon might be a good time for some emergency maintenance.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Director of Stunt</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5426</link>
		<dc:creator>Director of Stunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5426</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You can reduce the scope of what can attack you by using proper filtering (on the PFE). You can prevent spoofed attacks of BGP neighbors by matching on IP TTL. The only thing you can&#039;t stop is if you have a directly connected BGP neighbor who would like to attack you. The chances of this is somewhat less, though in certain instances many networks operate equipment on a large broadcast LAN. For example, at Internet exchanges, its common to have a router on a /24 or /23 subnet with hundreds of other peers. While the chances of an attack from a directly connected neighbor on a point-to-point subnet is slim and unlikely, it may be a larger threat on Internet exchange subnets. It&#039;s very common to have individuals with Linux servers running quagga in these environments. An individual with access to a device would then be able to launch attacks directly, eliminating the effectiveness of any IP TTL type filtering.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can reduce the scope of what can attack you by using proper filtering (on the PFE). You can prevent spoofed attacks of BGP neighbors by matching on IP TTL. The only thing you can&#8217;t stop is if you have a directly connected BGP neighbor who would like to attack you. The chances of this is somewhat less, though in certain instances many networks operate equipment on a large broadcast LAN. For example, at Internet exchanges, its common to have a router on a /24 or /23 subnet with hundreds of other peers. While the chances of an attack from a directly connected neighbor on a point-to-point subnet is slim and unlikely, it may be a larger threat on Internet exchange subnets. It&#8217;s very common to have individuals with Linux servers running quagga in these environments. An individual with access to a device would then be able to launch attacks directly, eliminating the effectiveness of any IP TTL type filtering.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JeDraco</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5424</link>
		<dc:creator>JeDraco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5424</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;According to my testing Firewall does come into play; Mx-Series devices implement firewall on the PFE,  so kernel never sees fw&#039;ed packet;  I am able to crash when a packet is allowed by the firewall, and not able to crash when a filter rule is set to block my test packet..&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However, the JunOS hardware firewalling capabilities don&#039;t provide a way to filter a packet based on TCP Options/Option Kind.
So (that I see), there&#039;s no way to use firewall to block just the exploit.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It seems that a valid packet can be spoofed, regardless of firewall: bad guy can use a fake source address.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As a result, there is no workaround, other than having no RE TCP listening ports. This is not feasible for border routers that require certain protocols.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to my testing Firewall does come into play; Mx-Series devices implement firewall on the PFE,  so kernel never sees fw&#8217;ed packet;  I am able to crash when a packet is allowed by the firewall, and not able to crash when a filter rule is set to block my test packet..</p>

<p>However, the JunOS hardware firewalling capabilities don&#8217;t provide a way to filter a packet based on TCP Options/Option Kind.
So (that I see), there&#8217;s no way to use firewall to block just the exploit.</p>

<p>It seems that a valid packet can be spoofed, regardless of firewall: bad guy can use a fake source address.</p>

<p>As a result, there is no workaround, other than having no RE TCP listening ports. This is not feasible for border routers that require certain protocols.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Director of Stunt</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5403</link>
		<dc:creator>Director of Stunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5403</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How do you know hardware packet filters (ACL sounds so Cisco-ish) don&#039;t work?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The example shown above, its clear you are using a JUNOS O-Series (olive). Olives lack ASICs and such which can perform packet filtering before packets are punted to the routing engine.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Just curious if you&#039;ve tried this against a Juniper that has a simple firewall police that would drop any packets destined to the RE below a particular TTL value. I&#039;m curious if the magic packet is able to proceed through and break the RE.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you know hardware packet filters (ACL sounds so Cisco-ish) don&#8217;t work?</p>

<p>The example shown above, its clear you are using a JUNOS O-Series (olive). Olives lack ASICs and such which can perform packet filtering before packets are punted to the routing engine.</p>

<p>Just curious if you&#8217;ve tried this against a Juniper that has a simple firewall police that would drop any packets destined to the RE below a particular TTL value. I&#8217;m curious if the magic packet is able to proceed through and break the RE.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Prefect</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5399</link>
		<dc:creator>Prefect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ACL won&#039;t come in to play according to our understanding from the bulletin itself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Anyone who can refute what Juniper stated in the bulletin about countermeasures, please let us know.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Director of Front: You&#039;re kidding right? Not sure where to get started on how wrong that statement is.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ACL won&#8217;t come in to play according to our understanding from the bulletin itself.</p>

<p>Anyone who can refute what Juniper stated in the bulletin about countermeasures, please let us know.</p>

<p>Director of Front: You&#8217;re kidding right? Not sure where to get started on how wrong that statement is.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Director of Front</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5398</link>
		<dc:creator>Director of Front</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5398</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Do you have any idea how broken JUNOS from over 1 year ago was? Anyone who isn&#039;t running anything SUPER ancient (i.e. back when the code didn&#039;t suck, like around 7.6 or so) has already upgraded, &#039;cause everything from a year+ ago was broken in far worse ways than this!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any idea how broken JUNOS from over 1 year ago was? Anyone who isn&#8217;t running anything SUPER ancient (i.e. back when the code didn&#8217;t suck, like around 7.6 or so) has already upgraded, &#8217;cause everything from a year+ ago was broken in far worse ways than this!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Director of Stunt</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5397</link>
		<dc:creator>Director of Stunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5397</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe M120/M320, MX and T-Series platforms have the ability to match on IP TTL in a firewall filter. Given that the majority of &quot;decent&quot; backbones are comprised with that gear, I&#039;d say thats a pretty effective way to stop this.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If your network relies upon a few M7i&#039;s...you probably should be upgrading your code.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe M120/M320, MX and T-Series platforms have the ability to match on IP TTL in a firewall filter. Given that the majority of &#8220;decent&#8221; backbones are comprised with that gear, I&#8217;d say thats a pretty effective way to stop this.</p>

<p>If your network relies upon a few M7i&#8217;s&#8230;you probably should be upgrading your code.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JeDraco</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5396</link>
		<dc:creator>JeDraco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 07:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5396</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Firewall by source applied to the lo0 does work, at least on the Mx-Series units, RE never sees the packet with fw&#039;d source address.  However there are obvious caveats.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for &quot;TTL&quot; security..  JunOS platform doesn&#039;t support TTL security. There&#039;s a &quot;hack&quot; that works on some platforms.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Most of Junipers&#039; hardware-based routing platforms don&#039;t support setting a firewall rule based on TTL, other than T-Series, M320/M120.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firewall by source applied to the lo0 does work, at least on the Mx-Series units, RE never sees the packet with fw&#8217;d source address.  However there are obvious caveats.</p>

<p>As for &#8220;TTL&#8221; security..  JunOS platform doesn&#8217;t support TTL security. There&#8217;s a &#8220;hack&#8221; that works on some platforms.</p>

<p>Most of Junipers&#8217; hardware-based routing platforms don&#8217;t support setting a firewall rule based on TTL, other than T-Series, M320/M120.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Prefect</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5389</link>
		<dc:creator>Prefect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 04:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5389</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Would only work if the packet filtering works, which in this case (per Juniper) it mostly doesn&#039;t.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would only work if the packet filtering works, which in this case (per Juniper) it mostly doesn&#8217;t.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: thomas angrignon</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5383</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas angrignon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 03:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5383</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One comment regarding the anti-spoofing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It may be easy to discover eBGP boundaries via traceroute due to folks typically using /30s or /31s (cough, what we all should be using), but that doesn&#039;t mean you can still attack either end of the router. Using BGP TTL security validation, you can implement packet filters that examine the IP TTL of any inbound TCP/179 (BGP) sessions. This way, any packet coming on for TCP 179, even if it is spoofed would still be tossed because its TTL will be &lt; 255. This is a best practice which has been going on for years and anyone not implementing it would be foolish.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One comment regarding the anti-spoofing.</p>

<p>It may be easy to discover eBGP boundaries via traceroute due to folks typically using /30s or /31s (cough, what we all should be using), but that doesn&#8217;t mean you can still attack either end of the router. Using BGP TTL security validation, you can implement packet filters that examine the IP TTL of any inbound TCP/179 (BGP) sessions. This way, any packet coming on for TCP 179, even if it is spoofed would still be tossed because its TTL will be &lt; 255. This is a best practice which has been going on for years and anyone not implementing it would be foolish.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JD McCloud</title>
		<link>http://praetorianprefect.com/archives/2010/01/junos-juniper-kernel-crash-video/comment-page-1/#comment-5365</link>
		<dc:creator>JD McCloud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://praetorianprefect.com/?p=2863#comment-5365</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;E-Series is a distraction, so killed from the article.  Thank you for the update @ANTON DELPORT.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;@ANTON DELPORT: On your second point about anti-spoofing and egress filtering, this has been raised enough that we have answered the question in the main article.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E-Series is a distraction, so killed from the article.  Thank you for the update @ANTON DELPORT.</p>

<p>@ANTON DELPORT: On your second point about anti-spoofing and egress filtering, this has been raised enough that we have answered the question in the main article.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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